Apparently a joke is that an independent Scotland will be like "Pyongyang with Haggis"
Read a bit more here: http://www.samizdata.net/2014/09/this-referendum-is-about-power-we-will-use-that-power-for-a-day-of-reckoning-with-bp-and-the-banks/
It's first-class romantic hooey. All romantic hooey should be so attractive.
Besides, Sean Connery supports independence.
And maybe they'll ditch their welfare habit once they're independent. It's sad to see a fine culture sunk so deep in socialism and labor-hooey (a less romantic and attractive variety). I'm afraid, though, that they'll go the way of Venezuela, notwithstanding their great oil wealth.
Well, it's domestic policy -- Scotland's -- but I understand your point. On the other hand, a good national mythology can be quite healthy: for example, if it is on the subject of rugged individualism and not taking handouts. A John Wayne goes a long way, during his lifetime, toward maintaining resistance to the welfare state.
I can't grudge the Scots their national myth...though apparently some Scots do....
On the other hand, a good national mythology can be quite healthy: for example, if it is on the subject of rugged individualism and not taking handouts.
Couldn't agree more...just as a poisonous national myth based on victimhood and old wrongs can be quiteunhealthy.
The polling data suggests a strong generational split, with those above 45 heavily against independence, and those below strongly in favor. That suggests that the vote won't go toward freedom -- younger people are less likely to vote pretty much everywhere.
The pro-Union campaign has put a lot of weight on the welfare state, actually. Staying with the UK is supposed to make sure that all those precious government benefits don't go away. I suppose among Scots of a certain age, the NHS has always been their retirement plan, and it's scary to think of losing it.
On first listen, Joseph, that song sounds more like a rebuke to living Scots for failing to rise to their national mythology. Why would you rebuke a man for failing to be a hero, if you don't believe he's supposed to be one?
It's really a rant against the national myth...Jacobites, "Bloody Charlie," and all...on the theory that it's a distraction from the "real" fight (which I'm guessing is the class war or something like). That's why the refrain calls the old national myths "lies":
There's no gods, and there's precious few heroes, But there's plenty on the dole in the land of the leal. And it's high time we swept the future clear Of the lies of a past that we know was never real.
...and suggests that
There's nothing much to choose between the old laird and the new They still don't give a damn for the likes of me and you... And I'm damned sure that there's plenty live in fear Of the day we stand together with our shoulders at the wheel
"Nobody ditches the welfare habit of their own accord."--Granted, but they're about to separate from the country that's been funding the welfare, aren't they?
There were plenty of Scots against Charlie at the time, of course -- and against the Stuarts in the Covenanter period before that -- so I didn't think that was dispositive. One certainly could read it as a rejection of the Scottish national myth, but one could also maintain the national myth -- the Bruce and William Wallace -- without any loyalty to the Jacobites.
You're right, though, that it sounds like a class-war ballad. Pete Seeger has a lot of offspawn.
Yep. Some of Andy Stewart's ballads seem to mourn the feudal order or at least be bitter about the way it ended...but a proper son of Marx couldn't very well wax nostalgic about the jahiliyyah.
"The Scots are almost everywhere you go – every corner on the planet, anything that's worth it, doesn't matter whether you're talking about banks in Hong Kong or rubber plantations in Malaya or the Canadian Pacific Railway, everywhere you go on the planet was built by Scots. And you go back to contemporary Scotland now, and they're this pathetic, feeble, passive economic swamp of dependency – parts of Glasgow, male life expectancy…they all sit around eating fried Mars bars all day, and life expectancy is getting down to West African rates in certain wards of Glasgow. So if you're someone who knows the Scottish diaspora, all that great stuff they did around the planet, and you go back to Scotland, you think, 'What the hell happened?' Well, what happened is government. What happened is welfare." -Mark Steyn
Given the left wing nature of Scottish politics, and what I have seen of the campaign, the real issue seems to be more about who will fund the cradle-to-the-grave welfare state rather than national self-determination. I am afraid the cry “give me handouts in Euros not pounds” lacks sufficient drama to fire the imagination. If the subjects of Scotland merely want to change the color of their chains of government dependence then color me unimpressed. Consequently, I can't get too worked up about this issue.
18 comments:
Funny, but like Tex said, it's romantic hooey.
The SNP is full of wannabe Chavezes.
Apparently a joke is that an independent Scotland will be like "Pyongyang with Haggis"
Read a bit more here:
http://www.samizdata.net/2014/09/this-referendum-is-about-power-we-will-use-that-power-for-a-day-of-reckoning-with-bp-and-the-banks/
That would be a substantial improvement over Pyongyang proper.
Anyway, romantic hooey is like American blundering. You mustn't underestimate it.
It's first-class romantic hooey. All romantic hooey should be so attractive.
Besides, Sean Connery supports independence.
And maybe they'll ditch their welfare habit once they're independent. It's sad to see a fine culture sunk so deep in socialism and labor-hooey (a less romantic and attractive variety). I'm afraid, though, that they'll go the way of Venezuela, notwithstanding their great oil wealth.
Nobody ditches the welfare habit of their own accord.
And the Americans didn't get to Berlin in 1918. Hell, they didn't even get there in 1945, until the Russians let everybody in.
Movie quotes are no basis for a foreign policy.
Well, it's domestic policy -- Scotland's -- but I understand your point. On the other hand, a good national mythology can be quite healthy: for example, if it is on the subject of rugged individualism and not taking handouts. A John Wayne goes a long way, during his lifetime, toward maintaining resistance to the welfare state.
Texas?
I can't grudge the Scots their national myth...though apparently some Scots do....
On the other hand, a good national mythology can be quite healthy: for example, if it is on the subject of rugged individualism and not taking handouts.
Couldn't agree more...just as a poisonous national myth based on victimhood and old wrongs can be quite unhealthy.
The polling data suggests a strong generational split, with those above 45 heavily against independence, and those below strongly in favor. That suggests that the vote won't go toward freedom -- younger people are less likely to vote pretty much everywhere.
The pro-Union campaign has put a lot of weight on the welfare state, actually. Staying with the UK is supposed to make sure that all those precious government benefits don't go away. I suppose among Scots of a certain age, the NHS has always been their retirement plan, and it's scary to think of losing it.
On first listen, Joseph, that song sounds more like a rebuke to living Scots for failing to rise to their national mythology. Why would you rebuke a man for failing to be a hero, if you don't believe he's supposed to be one?
It's really a rant against the national myth...Jacobites, "Bloody Charlie," and all...on the theory that it's a distraction from the "real" fight (which I'm guessing is the class war or something like). That's why the refrain calls the old national myths "lies":
There's no gods, and there's precious few heroes,
But there's plenty on the dole in the land of the leal.
And it's high time we swept the future clear
Of the lies of a past that we know was never real.
...and suggests that
There's nothing much to choose between the old laird and the new
They still don't give a damn for the likes of me and you...
And I'm damned sure that there's plenty live in fear
Of the day we stand together with our shoulders at the wheel
"Nobody ditches the welfare habit of their own accord."--Granted, but they're about to separate from the country that's been funding the welfare, aren't they?
There were plenty of Scots against Charlie at the time, of course -- and against the Stuarts in the Covenanter period before that -- so I didn't think that was dispositive. One certainly could read it as a rejection of the Scottish national myth, but one could also maintain the national myth -- the Bruce and William Wallace -- without any loyalty to the Jacobites.
You're right, though, that it sounds like a class-war ballad. Pete Seeger has a lot of offspawn.
So this is what the British UKIP rep meant when he said Scotland going away would make his job easier, but that he didn't want them to split off.
Yep. Some of Andy Stewart's ballads seem to mourn the feudal order or at least be bitter about the way it ended...but a proper son of Marx couldn't very well wax nostalgic about the jahiliyyah.
"The Scots are almost everywhere you go – every corner on the planet, anything that's worth it, doesn't matter whether you're talking about banks in Hong Kong or rubber plantations in Malaya or the Canadian Pacific Railway, everywhere you go on the planet was built by Scots. And you go back to contemporary Scotland now, and they're this pathetic, feeble, passive economic swamp of dependency – parts of Glasgow, male life expectancy…they all sit around eating fried Mars bars all day, and life expectancy is getting down to West African rates in certain wards of Glasgow. So if you're someone who knows the Scottish diaspora, all that great stuff they did around the planet, and you go back to Scotland, you think, 'What the hell happened?' Well, what happened is government. What happened is welfare." -Mark Steyn
Given the left wing nature of Scottish politics, and what I have seen of the campaign, the real issue seems to be more about who will fund the cradle-to-the-grave welfare state rather than national self-determination. I am afraid the cry “give me handouts in Euros not pounds” lacks sufficient drama to fire the imagination. If the subjects of Scotland merely want to change the color of their chains of government dependence then color me unimpressed. Consequently, I can't get too worked up about this issue.
With you there. It's a sad decline. Did all the Scots with gumption emigrate?
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